Home » Blog » Interview with Andy Gole

Interview with Andy Gole

Sims Wyeth interviews Andy Gole, president of Urgency Based Selling

Sims:  Andy Gole and I have been friends for quite a while now.  I think of you  Andy as a really hard-working guy who has incredible energy, joy in your work, and a powerful intensity in your sales philosophy.

So, let’s start with your market.  Where do you go fishing for business yourself?

Andy:  I target businesses with 5 to 20 salespeople. These are companies which might have hit the sales wall because market conditions changed, or their sales abilities have atrophied, and they are looking for a new way to move forward. The ownership or top management has to be open to significant change.

Sims:  Do you do cold calling?  Do you go door to door?

Andy:  Most leads come from referrals and an intensive lead-generation program.  Occasionally we do cold calling.  If we go door to door, it’s to assist a client.

Sims:  And how have you grown your business?

Andy:  Historically I plugged along for about 7 or 8 years doing the standard thing a consultant does–including seeking references and doing public seminars to generate leads

It wasn’t optimal, with boom/bust cycles. I realized I needed a breakthrough.  So, I started building websites, developing a marketing machine, and preparing short, impactful videos.  I also wrote a book and started doing substantial emailings.

Sims:  When and how did you come up with the idea that salespeople are heroes?

Andy:  Well the dominant view of salespeople is that they are slimy cheats, like Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman–a play about a guy who hates himself and commits suicide. 

But I see them differently.  I see salespeople as heroes because they open the closed mind…they move civilization forward.

They persist in the face of rejection. The salesperson brings new products, new ideas to the customer which will bring the customer to a higher state of well-being.  But the customer says “No, I’m good,” meaning “Everything is OK.  I don’t need your help.  I don’t need your products, and I don’t need you.”  That’s pretty tough stuff to handle all day long.  It takes a hero, a worthy champion, to handle this as a standard part of the job!

The salesperson stands his or her ground. He or she says, “I am surprised to hear you say that.  Is good good enough?  What about great?  What about fantastic?  What about best ever?”

The customer thinks he is at the top of the mountain–at the top of his game– but the salesperson shows the customer how to reach a higher point. 

The Harvard Business Review published a piece at the time of the last recession.  It advocated this:  in a downturn, provoke your customer.

That’s what we do in sales. It’s not for the faint hearted.

Sims:  What about the path of growth?

Andy: The path of growth is the path of untapped opportunity.  It’s the time when you can shoot fish in a barrel.  It is usually uncontested space–a “blue ocean.” 

One of the challenges in selling is discovering the path of growth, for finding the rising water that raises all boats.  This reflects the hunter/explorer role of the salesperson.

Strong salespeople often have to teach prospects type 3 knowledge–what they didn’t realize they didn’t know.  They also need to validate the information in the face of skepticism. This is another reason salespeople are heroes.

Sims:  What about your idea of the social vs. the business salesperson?

Andy:  Well, it’s really a false alternative.  You need both.  Social sellers are people who want to be liked.  And it is good to be liked because it brings comfort and intimacy into the conversation.

But you also have to be a business seller–a person who is not afraid of conflict or challenging the prospect’s thinking.  This is how business sellers bring the prospect to a higher level of well-being.

Social sellers are often country club sellers.  They make their money by being one of the guys.  The problem is that country club sellers end up cutting their price to win the sale.  Price cutting is a great way to get buyers to like you.  But a social seller mixed in with a business seller is a sales machine that is built to last.

Sims:  I’ve often heard you say, “It’s do or die.”  Isn’t that a little too much rhetorical pressure?  Can’t sales be fun?

Andy:  I contrast “do or die” with best efforts. When you are selling against entrenched competition, if you give it your best efforts, you will fail 100% of the time.

So, do or die is a meaningful concept in the context of new business development with entrenched competition.

There are other selling functions.  One example is a customer service rep, which is usually more of a low-key, order-taking position. You can probably function in that position with less of a “do or die” attitude.

However, if the competition is taking a do or die approach, you shouldn’t be surprised to lose the business to them, if you use best efforts.

Imagine if the entire sales team selling was on a best efforts basis and didn’t bring in enough sales.

It’s Friday afternoon, the owner tells everyone, “Not this week. No one gets paid this week, nor for the next 4 weeks. The sales team, operating on a best efforts basis, didn’t bring in enough sales.  But, I think I can pay you in 5 weeks.”

Who would hang around to find out?

When the news reports a bankruptcy, we shouldn’t be surprised if the sales team was allowed to act on a best efforts basis.

Sims: It takes a tough man to make tender chicken? Is that it?  What if the sales team does not have faith or trust in the product?  What then?

Andy:  They are in the wrong business. We need to select a product or service we can believe in, that can fuel the sales crusade.